Kathleen Brenner helps you live a purpose driven life
>> Speaker A: You are listening to the thriving lawyer with Kathleen Brenner. Are you a lawyer who's feeling burnt out but you want more in life? Do you want to live a purpose driven life that is filled with more meaning and joy? A life where you can absolutely thrive as a lawyer, but not at the expense of everything else that is important to you? If you are, you've come to the right place. I'm a lawyer, a coach, a dreamer, and a change maker. My mission is to help you grow and thrive, to embody your values and strengths as both a lawyer and human being, and to expand what is possible for you so you can create a more joyful, fulfilling and impactful life than you ever previously imagined possible.
Kathleen Brenner introduces new co host of Thriving Lawyer podcast
>> Speaker B: Welcome to episode twelve of the Thriving Lawyer with Kathleen Brenner. I'm super pleased to be here today, and we're going to do something a little bit different so far, to date, it's mostly been me talking about a concept that I've learned in my coaching. I've talked to Dr. Sharomi this week. I'm going to introduce you to Carla Faraz. Now, Carla, is a seasoned professional, certified coach with the International Coaching Federation. She had eight years of coaching experience with approximately 2000 hours of coaching as a peak performance coach. She's certified with Ericsson International and the Flow Research Collective. This experience is complemented by her strong educational background. It includes a bachelor's degree in international relations and a master's of Business administration from the Federal University of Rio de Janeiro. Before her coaching career, Carla previously worked in business development in the energy sector. She was born and raised in Brazil and now lives with her family on the Sunshine coast in Australia. She has previously lived and worked across the world, including the US, UK, Mexico and Singapore. Now, the reason that I am introducing Carla is that you are going to be hearing a lot more from her on this podcast. And she and I also have a really exciting project that we're working hard on. We're not going to talk about the project yet. more about that later. But in respect of the podcast, it's our intention that we will regularly co host it. We'll be talking about different topics that are relevant to lawyers who want to thrive. So that aspect of it is not changing at all. Now, Carla's not a lawyer. I'm the lawyer in the partnership. But she brings very senior corporate experience in addition to deep coaching experience with high level professionals, and that includes lawyers. So what we're going to do is we're going to have really interesting conversations about all things that are relevant to thriving as a lawyer. So welcome Carla, my new sometime co host for this podcast.
>> Speaker C: Thank you, Kathleen, for the warm welcome. I'm very excited to be joining the podcast as a co host and I'm really looking forward to become a familiar voice here. So we will be having some very exciting conversations around well being for lawyers and we're going to explore what thriving means, not only professionally, but also personally.
>> Speaker B: Thanks, Carla.
Carla is a professional coach and also has two young daughters
Well, why don't we get started? I thought that maybe for the remainder of the session I would ask you some questions so that my listeners, well, our listeners now can get to know you and get a bit better understanding of who you are and what it means, what you can bring to this thriving as a lawyer. So why don't you tell us a little bit more about yourself, Carla?
>> Speaker C: Certainly. So, outside my life as a professional coach, I'm a mum. I have two beautiful girls, Gabby, who's eleven, and Lila, who's nine. We live in a beautiful town on the Sunshine coast of Australia, a life that I really, never really dreamed it would even be possible. and I love being here. I feel very grateful to be in such a beautiful part of the world and being with my kids on their day to day activities. So that's really cool.
>> Speaker B: It's quite the life and it's quite some distance.
Tell us about how you started and the career path that led you here
So how does a girl from Rio end up in Queensland? Tell us about how you started and the career path that led you here. Sure.
>> Speaker C: So I started my career in the energy sector. I, feel really privileged because I got to live in a lot of different parts of the world. I really loved my corporate career. I really thrived on the challenges of the corporate world. I enjoyed navigating the different cultures that I got to live at and working with people from different nationality. But however, as I progressed in my career, I reached a point, in my last full time corporate job that was an international role that was really complex. It was really demanding hours, was working across three different, time zones and it really took a toll on me. And a certain point I was feeling really burned out. And at the same time, we were living in Singapore, I had just gotten married and we were thinking about starting a family. And with that I was like, I really want to give my very best at being a mom. And that didn't seem to fit with my current role at the time. Was it still very important for me to have a meaningful and challenging career? Because that's the world that I knew. I was always, working. So I decided to, okay, I'll quit my corporate job but I didn't know what to do. So I hired a coach to help me figure out what to do next. And that experience was really life changing. I really started getting to know myself, my values, my strengths and it really helping me reflect on what I wanted to do, how I wanted to spend my time. What did it even mean to be a mom and a professional?
>> Speaker B: M it's funny you should say that because my discovery of coaching colour was very similar in that I got coached when I was really uncertain about wanting to move. Well, I knew I wanted to move from Canberra to Melbourne but I didn't really understand the options or how to make that a reality. And it was that experience of being coached that opened me up to this whole new way of thinking and the possibilities. So I'm curious then for you. You talk about the fact that you got to know your values and strengths better and even just your self knowledge. Can you kind of expand on that about what you learned from the coaching and how you then went from actually being coached to quite a massive big step which is becoming a coach?
>> Speaker C: Sure. so I think what really helped me survive in the challenging environment of that last full, time role that I had was the fact that I have always been really good at taking care of my body and my brain. Right. I grew up in a family of athletes. My mom is a marathon runner. She still runs today at the age of 72. my dad was a soccer player and a gym. Enthusiastic, so we were always into exercise, meditation, health eatings from a very young age. so I thought my first idea when I was looking for my career transition was like, I have to do something with health, right? So I started a health course, a health coach course to begin with, I really enjoyed, but what I liked most about their course was the coaching aspect of it. So I decided to do a professional coaching course to leverage my leadership skills and my experience in the corporate world. Over time, my coach evolved into more of a holistic approach, emphasising well being as the foundation for leadership development. So I truly believe today that how you take care of yourself first impacts the way that you lead others. I mean, there have been many challenges along the way. Career transition. It's not very easy. Today I can say I am exactly where I want to be, but it took a long time. There were many, many challenges, including moving countries. It started a new life in a different place where I didn't know anyone. Again, having two small kids studying while this ho is happening. My husband got laid off during the pandemic. So there was a lot of challenges, but what I think was different is that I learned that the challenges were part of the process of growth. Like they were an opportunity to create something better. about three years ago, I joined Betterup, which is an executive coaching company. So Betterup is a tech company that uses the human interactor through coaching. so coaching used to belong to the high level executives, and betterup, I believe, helped bring in coaching to all levels, at least in the United States, where they very, very big. So we coach top executives as well as frontline managers, individual contributors. Right. So, today I split my working hours between coaching for betterup and my private, coaching practise. And now this exciting project that we have been working on together a, lot.
Carla takes us through how the path evolved for you
>> Speaker B: That's a lot there, Carla. thank you. Thanks for that and taking us through how the path evolved for you, because one of the things I think it is easy to do is to look back and sort of see them all wrapped up in a bow and how the path might seem inevitable, but it's actually not the way things work and things can get really hard. so it's really interesting to see how, as you explored and identified your values, you were able to really feel, your way forward. Does that resonate with you?
>> Speaker C: Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you for this insight and this reflection. Yeah, it's very true. Yeah.
You've increased your focus on flow and wellbeing, um, coaching
>> Speaker B: Okay, well, let's move on a little bit from there. Tell us a little bit about your coaching. You've mentioned you coach, better up. You also have your private clients. You and I, have both trained with Ericsson International, so we share that kind of various solutions focused approach to coaching. But you've also, in the meantime, increased your focus on flow and wellbeing, coaching, I think it's fair to say.
>> Speaker C: Yeah, sure. So my first coaching background is with solution focused coaching, like, as you mentioned, through the Ericsson International, which has a lot of elements of positive psychology in it as well. So usually we started with looking ahead, what is your ideal future? What is your best self? What does success and fulfilment means to a client? So that vision sort of serves as a guiding for us throughout the coaching journey. We also explore strengths, values. It's really about helping the clients, getting to know themselves better, increasing their self awareness, and then from there, we help clients setting clear and achievable goals for what they really wanted to create, in their lives. I worked for a range of different industries, like from IRS space to tech giants, financial industry, as well as corporate legal teams. And I noticed that some people performed better than others, and it wasn't just because they looked after their body brain, well, like I used to do, but they actually really enjoyed their job, and it wasn't their intellectual abilities or their title. So there was something else. So I started exploring, a lot around that know peak performance and flow. So about two years ago, I became certified in peak performance coaching with the flow research collective. And that's about using the state of flow to achieve big things in your life.
Stephen Kotler defines flow as an optimum state of consciousness
>> Speaker B: Well, I'm so interested in the science around flow, and it seems to be such an important or a big issue at the moment, and something that people are really lacking with all the distractions that we have in our lives. but there might be some listeners out there whom they haven't heard of it. Are you able to tell us a little bit more about what you actually mean by it? Sure.
>> Speaker C: So, Stephen Kotler, he's a flow expert and the founder of the flow Research collective. He defines flow as an optimum state of consciousness. It's a state where you feel your best and you perform at your best. So an, optimum state of consciousness is a state where an individual is fully immersed and completely absorbed in the activity. So people in flow, they are fully focused. There is a sense of enjoyment, like in an effortless engagement with what they are doing. Usually the sense of time distorts. Typically it speeds up, but it can also slow down. So it's really common for people in the state of flow to lose awareness of themselves and the surroundings, like they are fully immersed in what they are doing at that moment. So, Mihali chikensa. Mihali is one of the co founders of positive psychology, and he was the first person to identify and research the state of flow. So he discovered that flow has triggers, and we can learn how to purposely get into flow. It can happen naturally as well. like I mentioned to some of those leaders that I've worked with, right. We can all get in flow naturally, but we can also learn how to trigger flow in our lives. And there's a lot of elements involved in that, like having clear goals, immediate feedback, using your curiosity and your passions and purpose to trigger flows.
>> Speaker B: Yeah.
How do you help high level professionals achieve extra flow in their lives
So I think that that's something that will be of really keen interest to the lawyers out there, because I know even from my own personal experience, one of the challenges being a lawyer is, on the one hand, we're so often required to do really deep, hard work. Right? Particularly you're writing some advice for example, can be really complicated. You need that time. But then, on the other hand, as you get more senior, there's more and more demands on you. and even in this remote environment, I've been working remotely, and still there'll be these constant team messages that come through or the meetings and the interruptions, and it becomes really hard to actually achieve that. So I'm curious to understand from you, given that these are the challenges that high level professionals, including lawyers, have, how do you actually coach people to help them have that extra flow in their life?
>> Speaker C: Yeah, so it all begins with, getting to know themselves, like their strengths, their passions and their values, and then creating goals align to those core elements in their lives. and that is part of that process is what are the activities that you naturally get into flow? Once we explore that, we go into like, okay, how do we make space for those activities to happen in your life? So usually there is a lot of time management strategies, breaking down tasks into manageable chunks, and creating a schedule that allows for deep focus. So, like you mentioned, how do we, turn off notifications? Creating space for flow to exist in your life? We explore the concept of mindfulness and self awareness plays a crucial role in the process of flow. So helping clients to create their own mindfulness practises, whatever that might be, not necessarily sitting down for meditation, but it might be a walk, reflect, helping them understand what are their thought patterns, what goes on inside their head, and then enabling to redirect their focus to the present moment so they can get fully engaged with the task at hand, so they can get fully engaged in their flow activities.
How have you applied what you've learned from coaching in your own life
>> Speaker B: And so how with that in mind, and the scope of your coaching is clearly quite broad. How have you applied what you've learned from coaching in your own life? You've moved continents, you're bringing up a family, you're a busy coach, and just. It's a lot of questions, I know, but how do you get into flow?
>> Speaker C: Yes, it takes a little while. So I have embraced a holistic approach to my life now that revolves around my values, my strengths and the activities that bring me flow. The number one thing I think that has really helped me is that I've come to understand that in order to support others, I have to be in my best body mind state. So I look after my well being first. I've created a space for that to exist in my life. So I exercise, I meditate, I reflect, these are my support systems. Right. And they have to be present in order for me to perform at that level. So I apply the principles of flow to my life by engaging in activities that are aligned with my values. my flow activities are reading, learning, exercising. I get very much into flow when I'm coaching, especially coaching individuals that want to create a positive impact in their lives and the world. Right. So that consistent bling me froze, and I create space for that to exist. And remember that flow is not all positive. Right. We do need the challenges to be able to get into flow. Use the challenges as an opportunity for growth. We need this struggle phase to get into the flow. The flow phase.
>> Speaker B: Yeah. That's really refreshing to hear, because I think sometimes there's a bit of a misconception that if you just do all of these things, somehow your life will be easy and that there'll be no chance. But it's actually all about something different, isn't it? About embracing that?
>> Speaker C: Yeah.
Many high level professionals neglect their health, Carla says
>> Speaker B: Well, Carla, you've coached some really high professionals, and those professionals, some of them are lawyers. In all your work, what are the biggest challenges that your clients face? And are there any common themes?
>> Speaker C: Yes, a few things. I think, I think the number one challenge that many high level professionals struggle with, and including a lot of lawyers, that I have worked with, it's that delicate balance between their demanding careers and their personal lives, their work life balance. Right. So I help clients identify their priorities. It offer encourages them to create a more proactive, approach to their lives. And that involves setting boundaries, create clear agreements with people where communicate effectively with their teams and their families of what is possible and what is not possible, and learning how to ask for help when necessary. it's also not uncommon for high achieving professionals to completely neglect their health. They're very busy, so they put their health on the backseat. And this neglect can have a really long term, consequences on their physical and mental health and then consequently, on their performance as well. So looking after yourself, it's not just for you. You're, not being selfish when you start looking after yourself. That's for your team, that's for your family as well. So if you show up at work rested and motivated after a good night's sleep, you will be very different than if you show up overwhelmed and stressed. Right. So that's probably the biggest shift that people make in their lives when they see that looking after themselves is for their team and for their family. Then they started creating space for that to exist.
Sometimes people get into a survival mindset, clients finds themselves languishing
And I guess another common challenge is the constant pressure to excel like high achievers. Right? And sometimes people get into a survival mindset, clients finds themselves languishing like merely hanging on, like completely on autopilot. So shifting from a survival mentality to a thriving mindset usually involves taking, consciously putting an effort of how do I break free from these reactive patterns in my life? And I create a more constructive, proactive approach, bringing the intentionality to what they want to do, and usually involves pausing, reflecting, using the challenges as opportunity for growth. They're going to be there. We can't be proactive on everything. Uncertainty bring changes to our life that sometimes bring painful challenges to deal with. And then there are also, of course, a lot of leadership challenges, like around delegation, building trust with their team, overall productivity, and how to organise your time. and all of that stuff starts with knowing your values and becoming more self aware and understanding what is within your control and what is not.
>> Speaker B: That is really fundamental, isn't it? There's so much there, Carla, thank you.
What do you think lawyers need to pay most attention to to thrive
to just build on that, then, having coached so many high level professionals, including lawyers, you've seen those common themes. What do you think that lawyers need to pay most attention to in order to truly thrive?
>> Speaker C: I think it's what I mentioned before. It's taking care of your neurobiology. So pay attention on how you move, what do you eat, how do you rest, how is your sleep, how do you recover on daily basis? and I know this can be hard, but it's a slow process. Discover what movement is for you. It might not be going to the gym like it is for me and lifting weights. It might be a walk in the park. It might be as simple as getting up from your chair and walking to the kitchen. So tailor a movement plan that fits within your schedule. Look after yourself first. That will give you the best benefit. And then another part that is important as well is the reflection. Right? You don't need a coach to increase your self awareness. You can do it by yourself. Like, start paying attention to your inner voice. Make sure that you talk to yourself with self compassion, kindness, understanding, especially when you make mistakes, especially when it's really challenging. Pause and reflect. Foster a habit of pausing and, reflecting on your experience. Taking moments of introspection, you gain valuable insights into how you work. Get to know yourself. It's very, very important.
>> Speaker B: Well, thank you, Carla. I think that there's some very wise and sage advice that if lawyers just take one step or one action, there can be really helpful.
I think that's a really good place for us to close the podcast
I think that's a really good place for us to close the podcast. I just want to add at the end here, Carla. And I have been working so hard in the last several months on what is a very major project, and it will be the thriving lawyer's signature offer. It's so exciting to finally be able to say even just that we're not ready to announce it yet. But if you would like to be the first to know and you haven't already signed up to our newsletter, please do so. you can do that at, ww thethrivinglawyer.com au or we'll include a link in our show notes. So thank you so much. Carla, is there anything you'd like to add just to close us off?
>> Speaker C: Well, thank you, Catherine. It's been really exciting talking to you today and I'm really looking forward to what else is know, more podcasts, more discussions.
>> Speaker B: Yeah, thank you so much. All right, well, thank you and hope you've enjoyed the podcast. Until next time, lawyers. Thank you.
